[EcoBus.] MB1114. Bi-Carburation

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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par joumpy »

AlmaSana a écrit :Joumpy about what you said, this bus runs on low rpm.
absolutely.
Power and rpm are 2 different things...
Let's say your engine has maximum power of 200 bhp at 3000 rpm (I do not have the exact figures...)
Maybe the maximum this engine can deliver is 100 bhp at 1500 rpm giving 60 mph on last gear.
If this engine is mounted in a car (idiot, but let's consider), only 20 bhp will be useful to cruse at 60 mph. thus 20% of the available power is used and the engine runs cold meaning bad combustion and residues accumulating.
When the same engine is mounted in a heavy bus, 90 bhp will be required to cruise at the same speed so the engine runs almost at full available power (although only half max rpm) therefore warm inside with a good combustion that accomodates slower burning fuel like vegetable oil.
Thus the premium importance of the power to weight ratio. Direct/indirect injection only comes second to it.
Le plaisir n'est rien si par la même occasion il n'emmerde pas quelqu'un d'autre :o
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Joumpy, here is the engine chart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes- ... 352_engine

On Monday im going to my old friend 80 years mechanic :).
Will watch together where to take from the line for the hot water :)

I found this 3 way solenoid valvs 1/2" 12v.
Are they ok?
https://www.amazon.com/MISOL-motorized- ... XKQ7631D9W


At Baco web they have motorized ball valve, not solenoid, whats the difference?
http://www.bacoengineering.com

What means normally closed? normally opened? wich ones i should buy? Thanks!


And im enjoying watching this 30 plate heat exchanger...
https://www.amazon.com/B3-12A-Stainless ... BQSP8?th=1
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par joumpy »

AlmaSana a écrit :Joumpy, here is the engine chart.
Not a bad guess is it? Plus my figures are the easiest!

Now about ball valves: it is a matter of safety and electricity consumption
Ball valves will use electricity only to change position and both positions are stable. In case of electricity breakdown, they remain in the last position ordered and you do not know which position they are in.
Solenoïd valves have only one stable position they will return to in case of electricity breakdown. drawback, they use electricity to maintain unstable position (a few amps).
All 3 way valves have one common inlet and 2 outlets. one that is open in absence of electricity (called normally open) and thus the other normally closed. The status (open/close) is changed with electricity.
For safety, we usually use normally open inlet for diesel fuel and normally closed inlet for vegetable oil.
That sort of things:
http://www.bio-clic.com/fr/electrovanne ... volts.html

Now, this 30 plate heat exchanger certainly look nice and will do the job, but much more expensive than a few copper tubes!
Le plaisir n'est rien si par la même occasion il n'emmerde pas quelqu'un d'autre :o
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par boomer »

correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your bus has a 24v electric sistem, therefore you'd better use a 24v solenoid valve
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

joumpy a écrit :
AlmaSana a écrit :Joumpy, here is the engine chart.
http://www.bio-clic.com/fr/electrovanne ... volts.html
Now, this 30 plate heat exchanger certainly look nice and will do the job, but much more expensive than a few copper tubes!
Thank tou for the amazing valves lesson.
The plate expensive? that valve is expensive! jajaja

if the valves are that expensive ill go with manual valves.
what do you think about that? we already talked about how lon they will be from the pump. it ll tkae
some seconds until the oil chages from dieles back and foward..

About filter, we already talked im going to need another one for the oil isnt it?
Or use the original for oil, another one much more simple for disel?

What about the filter + temperature exchanger?
whats the name for that part?

(this ill be the last questions, i think haha)


Ahooooo! (native south american celebration)
Modifié en dernier par AlmaSana le jeu. janv. 19, 2017 6:40 am, modifié 1 fois.
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

boomer a écrit :correct me if I'm wrong but I think that your bus has a 24v electric sistem, therefore you'd better use a 24v solenoid valve
12v :)
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Macromalhuile37 »

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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Macromalhuile37 »

And for your heat exchanger...Try to find it on automatic transmission american pickup (dodge ram 5.9 ) ...
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Macromalhuile37 a écrit :3 way ball valves...From china....
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/New-1Pc- ... 23e25f8bee
Those ones are manual, i can buy them here in argentina if I choose to buy those ones :)
What do you think about them? Is not problem? i talk about how far they are from the pump.
It will take a while until the liquid changes from one to another..
Macromalhuile37 a écrit :And for your heat exchanger...Try to find it on automatic transmission american pickup (dodge ram 5.9 ) ...
I searched what you said but i got heat exchanger plates, nice beucase they are half the price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transmission-Oi ... 2045927578

But i was looking more for this, do you know the name?
joumpy a écrit :That sort of thing
Image
picture taken from another motorist forum


Thanks
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par morris »

AlmaSana a écrit :But i was looking more for this, do you know the name?
Thanks
Hi Alma,

"Modine is the manufacturer of the original Donut™ compact oil cooler. The advantage of the Donut oil cooler was that it could be installed at the oil filter location without external lines.
Liquid-to-liquid layered-core oil coolers (LCOCs) are engineered to efficiently and economically reduce the high oil and fuel temperatures encountered in today's vehicles."

http://www.modine.com/web/en/oil-cooler ... IDnSFPhDIU

+ https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/WVO-SVO- ... 0.0.wkG576
37000 miles on SVO, excellent!
or If you want to spend more money, the same product with a nice label on it : http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vegetable-oi ... SwKIpWAcBG
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

I couldnt fin the donut heat exchanger, so if i buy it will be the 30 plate.
Thank youuuuu!

Morris could you explain me why it says this:

Puissance:Pneumatique (Power: Pneumatic) (?)
Structure:Contrôle (Structure: Control) (Shouldnt it say solenoid?)

And what do you all think about this item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-3-way-sole ... QP70a6eTyw

And please check the image i attached, that guy using 2 exchangers? dont need to isnt it?

Thanks a lot! Ready to buy!
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par morris »

AlmaSana a écrit :I couldnt fin the donut heat exchanger, so if i buy it will be the 30 plate.
Hi,
Here is what we recover on the French cars except the brass fittings:
http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?i ... 050284.jpg
We also use "eckes".It is an automotive part used on Volkswagen cars to cool engine oil. We divert its use to heat the vegetable oil. It is difficult and long enough to clean if you buy second hand. Here is the assembly that requires the purchase or manufacture of the central spacer
(not available on the VW engine because oil cooler attached directly to the engine block).
You can see in this thread different oil cooler. Eckes, "big eckes", modine from Peugeot engine and oil cooler from my Peugeot Berlingo, the less thick.
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php ... es#p251141
Morris could you explain me why it says this:

Puissance:Pneumatique (Power: Pneumatic) (?)
Structure:Contrôle (Structure: Control) (Shouldnt it say solenoid?)
This model accepts compressed air.
Structure? I don't understand. Not important.
And what do you all think about this item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-3-way-sole ... QP70a6eTyw
I think he makes a lot of money. These are exactly the same solenoid valves that will cost you 70USD delivered in Argentina if you buy them in Asia.
A timed relay of this model costs less than 5USD. A switch and a few centimeters of copper wire ... I let you calculate.
And please check the image i attached, that guy using 2 exchangers? dont need to isnt it?

Thanks a lot! Ready to buy!
You took this picture in a different advertisement from this seller. You must have read this:
"2 x 10 plate Stainless Steel Heat exchangers (one prior to filters, one prior to injection pump - insures warm veg oil always delivered to a warm injection pump)."

No one here filters this way, with two filter cartridges. Difficult to find a place in the engine compartment.
The first exchanger is used to liquefy the oil. Without it, the filters are blocked quickly because the American and Australian filter their oil harvest on board. Their pick up consume a lot, big tank in the back. I will assimilate this first exchanger to a tank heater to melt the butter!
Be wise and filter your oil in your garage. Let your oil be decanted before final use in your truck. Installs a two tank system, puts a 30 plates and looks at the oil temperature at the injection pump inlet. If it is not warm enough, it will be necessary to add an eckes for example.
I'm not a direct injection engine specialist. I have an IIBP engine (indirect injection low pressure) 2.4D OM616 on an MB100.
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Macromalhuile37 a écrit :I made a photograph of one of my piece of junk... this one is made of an evacuation copper tube (diameter 32mm not realy easy to find) and 3 tubes of 8mm exterior diameter...in green the Veggie circuit in red the motor coolant one...
IMG_20170110_184057.jpg
So the 3 tubes are inside the 32mm? Amazing, thanks for the idea.
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

morris a écrit :
AlmaSana a écrit :I couldnt fin the donut heat exchanger, so if i buy it will be the 30 plate.
Hi,
Here is what we recover on the French cars except the brass fittings:
http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?i ... 050284.jpg
We also use "eckes".It is an automotive part used on Volkswagen cars to cool engine oil. We divert its use to heat the vegetable oil. It is difficult and long enough to clean if you buy second hand. Here is the assembly that requires the purchase or manufacture of the central spacer
(not available on the VW engine because oil cooler attached directly to the engine block).
You can see in this thread different oil cooler. Eckes, "big eckes", modine from Peugeot engine and oil cooler from my Peugeot Berlingo, the less thick.
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php ... es#p251141
I will buy a 30 plate heat exchanger or produce the cooper one.
Hard to find that here in Argentina, and it will be hard to find the filters maybe.
Thanks thanks thanks.
About Hear Exchangers its ok to buy this one from a Ram?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transmission-Oi ... 2045927578
Or this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Plate-3x8-Wa ... SwDN1UQTZI

morris a écrit : This model accepts compressed air.
Structure? I don't understand. Not important.
Amazing, i will buy 4 if this one
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/WVO-SVO- ... 0.0.wkG576
2 for me, 2 for someone who will soon need them :)

morris a écrit :
alma a écrit :And what do you all think about this item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-3-way-sole ... QP70a6eTyw
I think he makes a lot of money. These are exactly the same solenoid valves that will cost you 70USD delivered in Argentina if you buy them in Asia.
A timed relay of this model costs less than 5USD. A switch and a few centimeters of copper wire ... I let you calculate.
I think the same, thanks for your vision.
morris a écrit :
alma a écrit :And please check the image i attached, that guy using 2 exchangers? dont need to isnt it?
Thanks a lot! Ready to buy!
You took this picture in a different advertisement from this seller. You must have read this:
"2 x 10 plate Stainless Steel Heat exchangers (one prior to filters, one prior to injection pump - insures warm veg oil always delivered to a warm injection pump)."

No one here filters this way, with two filter cartridges. Difficult to find a place in the engine compartment.
The first exchanger is used to liquefy the oil. Without it, the filters are blocked quickly because the American and Australian filter their oil harvest on board. Their pick up consume a lot, big tank in the back. I will assimilate this first exchanger to a tank heater to melt the butter!
Be wise and filter your oil in your garage. Let your oil be decanted before final use in your truck. Installs a two tank system, puts a 30 plates and looks at the oil temperature at the injection pump inlet. If it is not warm enough, it will be necessary to add an eckes for example.
I'm not a direct injection engine specialist. I have an IIBP engine (indirect injection low pressure) 2.4D OM616 on an MB100.
Amazing so i'll just buy one heat exchanger. if i need to add another one because
the oil is not that hot, ill creat a cooper one.

Just thank you, ill have all the items for the lasts days of february :)
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Macromalhuile37 »

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/WVO-SVO- ... 0.0.wkG576

I had many trouble with those valves of poor quality....They were sold in europe by EMC....

First one leak between the two inlets ...My gazole tank level was falling when i was runing on oil ...And when it was empty ... The engine wasn't running with air a long time....

Second one....The solenoid are very hot when they are "on" during a long time....And 3 times...they burned by themselves on my daihatsu rocky....So If you put them on your truck...Install them for the shortest time a 1 .... For me those solenoids are not designed for continuous use...

In the last series they seem to have no more leak...They've changed a spring...
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Macromalhuile37 a écrit :https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/WVO-SVO- ... 0.0.wkG576

I had many trouble with those valves of poor quality....They were sold in europe by EMC....

First one leak between the two inlets ...My gazole tank level was falling when i was runing on oil ...And when it was empty ... The engine wasn't running with air a long time....

Second one....The solenoid are very hot when they are "on" during a long time....And 3 times...they burned by themselves on my daihatsu rocky....So If you put them on your truck...Install them for the shortest time a 1 .... For me those solenoids are not designed for continuous use...

In the last series they seem to have no more leak...They've changed a spring...
My heart just broke :(
When u said, "Install them for the shortest time a 1" what did you meant?
Nice they fixed the leak.
Wich solenoid you recommend?

I found this one
http://www.wvodesigns.com/raw-power-3-p ... valve.html

and this catalog, http://content2.smcetech.com/pdf/VX3.pdf
But the port is 3/8 and the inside orifice just 4mm...

Thanks my friend
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Macromalhuile37 »

I mean...Try too use the solenoid as less as possible....If you have enough oil...Use them on petrol...I had a look in my messages..I burned tree of them ...And they are placed in the fan air flow at the opposite side of exhaust pipe...Nothing heat them ...Only the heat exchanger (30 plates) ....

I'm not the only one...On this forum several members had the same problem...Mine are protected by a 10A fuse... It flashed one time ...When i put a new one it did not....And i post a message at this moment...I was lost in center of France with no spare part....
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Macromalhuile37 a écrit :I mean...Try too use the solenoid as less as possible....If you have enough oil...Use them on petrol...I had a look in my messages..I burned tree of them ...And they are placed in the fan air flow at the opposite side of exhaust pipe...Nothing heat them ...Only the heat exchanger (30 plates) ....

I'm not the only one...On this forum several members had the same problem...Mine are protected by a 10A fuse... It flashed one time ...When i put a new one it did not....And i post a message at this moment...I was lost in center of France with no spare part....
So you are saying to use the soleoind valvs for the diesel conduct?
Wow so they got heated buy the temperature of the oil coming from the 30 plates?

Uf, im confued now :(
I dont know how many oil i will have.. need to do some practise so i dont have to worry.
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Macromalhuile37 »

Have a look a my ones and theit location....They are in the fan air flow between the batterrie and the engine...They a green but it's the same junk...And the original conectors with the fabulous DEL...Replaced quickly by simple terminals...
IMG_20170123_171438.jpg
IMG_20170123_171505.jpg
IMG_20170123_171549.jpg
And my petrol tank :o made with the headlight washer
IMG_20170123_171450.jpg
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Macromalhuile37 a écrit :Have a look a my ones and theit location....They are in the fan air flow between the batterrie and the engine...They a green but it's the same junk...And the original conectors with the fabulous DEL...Replaced quickly by simple terminals...
Thanks a lot! so you hace the same junk solenoid valvs.
Should i buy those chinese ones?
I have a lot of space in the bus to put them really near the air flow :)
I could even put a smaller 12v fan just for them :)

what should i do my friend?
thanks a lot, love and peace
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