[EcoBus.] MB1114. Bi-Carburation

[joumpy]

solder all meter?

Not quite, you need to attach fuel and coolant hoses at both ends: spare a few inches.
god bless

[AlmaSana]

solder all meter?

Not quite, you need to attach fuel and coolant hoses at both ends: spare a few inches.
god bless

Thank youuu!
a lotttt

now its time to do it..

[AlmaSana]

Hi Alma,
Sometimes, the heat exchanger is not on the diesel circuit, but on the engine oil circuit: it is used to cool the engine oil down. Then it is close to the oil filtering element.

Is this the heat exchanger?

[AlmaSana]

this one? on top of the filtering oil element?

20161128_135711_resized.jpg

[Macromalhuile37]

No...It's a pré filter water separator and a manual pump ...

[joumpy]

That sort of thing

picture taken from another motorist forum

[AlmaSana]

Ill check for it, pretty sure is not there..

About the copper tube, i think 16/18 mm for collant hose is
to small, my collant hose are really big, ill send a picture tomorrow.

im back in my city after a year travelling
will rest for a month and go on travelling
this month ill finish the motor

[boomer]

hello Alma,
You will not find this type of heater on your engine, but on R21, R25, Espace, Cherokee cars and others... but I don't know if they existe the other side of the atlantic... you will have to seek.

Here is a link that talks about it:
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php?f=157&t=19008

you can go for an other tipe of heaters that you can easily find on the web:
http://www.ebay.fr/sch/i.html?_sacat=0& ... c=50&rt=nc

You shoult take the heat from an other coollant hose that the big one whitch is connected to the top of your radiator, for exemple the smaller one that goes to the heating sistem of your cabine.

I hope your are successful,
all the best

[Tibo1987]

Hey

I know i m late for the talk,
but ive been following this thread, and I was juste thinking, cooper and veggy oil do not go along together very well.. Everywhere that veggy oil will be in contact with cooper or anything that would contain cooper (brass for instance) a oxydized paste of reacted oil will slowly appear. Everyone observes this... and it sucks. After 6 years of using my oil system, I will have to disassemble everything and hopefully will be able to clean it... Maybe not!

Well just saying, if you have another choice than this cooper exchanger, prefer something different. (for instance in house cooling systems - air cond. and etc. you may find soft aluminium alloy that are easy to bend around a cooper tube - or a exhaust!, that will probably make the job)

Good luck with everything

[AlmaSana]

Ops

So copper is not ok to exchange temperature?
Joumpy what do you think about that?
I was going tomorrow to buy the tubes...

Should i use inox?
Aluminium?

Boomer, and my other friends.
Could you help me find en ebay or somewhere
the exnagers you show me on the pictures?
I dont know how to find it.. the exact name..

I could buy one outside, in the us or europe... and thats all isnt it?


Thanks everyone for your help..
Id been thinking in change the engine for one with indirect injection too...
Or change the cylinder head for the one in the MB 911(motor OM312), is indirect.... has the
prechamber...
so i will be able to use the motor in the city.. and no need of another
fuel tank and hoses... what do you think about that?

[AlmaSana]

Of this one, wich model should i buy?

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Echangeur-de-cha ... NM8hHtuLAw



Will this one work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brazed-Plate-He ... SwepJXU8k8

Thanks!

[AlmaSana]

Radiator Hoses







Heres is from where im planning to take the water copper tube.
But dont know where to send it after i take it from there...

[Macromalhuile37]

you can also take the water from your cabin heater...

[AlmaSana]

you can also take the water from your cabin heater...

There's not a cabin heater
The motor itself heats everything hahaha

[Tibo1987]

Yeah well,
maybe dont be too stressed by the use of cooper. Just let it somewhere in your mind; in a few years, you may have to clean everything. You might want to put the exchanger before the filter also ; it will helps to retain possible residues generated in the cooper tubes.

About your plate exchangers, the first one is 12 plates the second one is 20. The higher the number of plates, the stronger the heat exchange. We usually use 30 plates, sometimes 20. 12 might be a little short.
But I would say its a matter of price. If the cooper tubes are cheap, then go for it. If its about the same prise than a 20 or 30 plates heat exchanger, then go for this solution, the heating power of these if MUCH higher!
For searching on ebay, type "30 plates heat exchanger"

About the placing of the heat exchanger, we usually take the heat from the output of the cylinders head, which is the first warm point. We usually plug it in derivation with where this hose was going (usually interior radiator) ;
If you consider using the output you show on the picture (the one with that big screw plugged on) then think about where this water is going to go after the heat exchanger (return line?) usually in front of the water pump.

How about your question of motor swap... Well, first the pre chambers will not change the need of a dual tank system (my opinion). Starting whatever engine with pure oil is shit for the cylinders O rings and overall durability of the engine. Plus you have to consider that 99% of the lifetime of a car is sitting on the parking lot doing nothing (with the motor OFF). And for chemical considerations (gaskets, reactions with cooper, brass etc.) its better to have the fuel system filled with diesel instead of doubtfull veggy oil.
So you will need a dual tank system even on a indirect injection for extended lifetime of the engine.

Considering how harsch it can be to wap a motor on such a toy; I would say, run the bus with your engine, and when it starts showing signs of bad treatments of the oil ( that is engine oil smells french fries, blowing air and smoke by fill oil cap, blue smoke at the exhaust etc.) you could think of changing it. If you are running it correctly (that is diesel for idle and oil for actual driving) it might last very long.... and if you are not might last long also... 5- 10 years maybe ?

Good luck buddy

[joumpy]

Hi Alma,
Back from holidays.
As you can see, the whole community helps: wondeful!

Copper reacts with oil in a matter of years.
It is cheap, simple and a good start.
Maybe you will have to buy new copper tubes in 4/5 years...
They'll be paid for with the vegetable oil used instead of diesel do'nt worry.

Changing the cylinder head: forget about it, start with simple 2 tank system and use the engine to its maximum limit, then swap the engine.
The important factor is the power to weight ratio.
For such a bus, the ratio cannot be large, meaning the engine run close to full power, the combustion chambers are warm and the oil burns properly.
direct injection or not.

[Macromalhuile37]

I'have been using copper for my heat exchanger since my begining with vegie ...If you don't have any air ...You wont have any problem with copper.... I alway have two of my first sef made ones....Made ten years ago...And they are so OK that My son is today trying to put it in his VW Golf 2 TD...No place for a 30 plates exchanger in this car...Back to old solutions... I'm trying to find old photos of those ...Back in a few minutes...

[AlmaSana]

What can I say?!
Thank you thank you tank you!

I will use cooper lines at first..
I will check again where to take the water from and give it a good return line (will check this with my old friend mechanic)

Id been talking with some guys and they told me is possible to change only cilynder head with one
with pre chamber... (Already cheked on mi mind about the 2 system tank, will do it with 2)

Joumpy about what you said, this bus runs on low rpm.

Macromalhuile37 if you have the pictures will be amazing to take a look.


thank you guys, you are awesome.
if you come to argentina, just give me a call +5491161712110

[Macromalhuile37]

Sorry for the photos...I try to seek for them...But i think they have been destryed in the first crash of my computer...They are not in my external hard disk...I post them here but at this time we had to put them on imageshack us...And they are amnesic...I'll try with google image...I recovered some off old ones...

[Macromalhuile37]

I made a photograph of one of my piece of junk... this one is made of an evacuation copper tube (diameter 32mm not realy easy to find) and 3 tubes of 8mm exterior diameter...in green the Veggie circuit in red the motor coolant one...

IMG_20170110_184057.jpg